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总结一下我对排华法案的看法

陈士杰  ·  2021年8月19日 打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

我看到 @移民 又在拿排华法案不点名的批判我,由于他把我拉黑了,导致我没法给他回帖,那我就全方面的阐述一下我对排华法案的看法。

①美国上世纪的排华法案没有侵犯人权。美国政府当然可以禁止大清国民入境美国,如果每个大清国民都必须有权入境美国,那么美国的国家主权就没有了。美国政府不需要向华人道歉,因为那些来美国的华人也是自愿来的,不是美国大兵用枪逼着他们来的。一个愿打一个愿挨,华人凭什么要求美国政府道歉?

②我主张重新恢复排华法案,但不是上世纪的原版恢复。因为上世纪的排华法案是不允许中国人入境美国,如果美国政府今天再这么做,中国政府肯定也会禁止美国人入境中国的,这就等于中美断交了,那么美国企业在中国也没有办法投资建厂,这对美国经济有伤害。

所以新时代的排华法案应该是禁止中华人民共和国公民获得美国绿卡。已经获得美国绿卡的中国公民也应该禁止他们入籍,并且找各种理由吊销他们的绿卡。中国到时候肯定也会禁止美国公民获得中国永居身份来反制,但想获得中国永居身份的美国公民是屈指可数的,所以中国的反制根本无法伤害美国。

新时代的排华法案只针对中华人民共和国公民,对台湾和东南亚的华人是不受限制的。

③我没有枫叶卡,也不会申请枫叶卡。

菜单
  1. 习禁瓶  

    希望老美尽快实行排华法案 这不是道德意义上的考量,而是现实意义上的 否则支共渗透越来越深,贸易连年逆差,得不偿失 最好的考量是赶紧封锁洼地

  2. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @IronStar21 #153780 公民和绿卡是有本质区别的。绿卡是客人,公民是主人。

  3. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #153795 法治国家,任何在juridiction内的人都要享受法治,不随公民身份而变。没有公民身份只是没资格选举进而影响立法,但是已立之法并不因此对非公民无效。

  4. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @消极 #153798 所以我认为美国应该制定法律, 规定绿卡持有者如果有对美国不友善的言论,立刻驱逐出境。

  5. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)
  6. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @消极 #153802 言论自由是给美国公民的,不是给外国人的。外国人不享受宪法权利。

  7. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #153803 https://www.maniatislawoffice.com/blog/2018/08/do-non-citizens-have-constitutional-rights/

    There is a misconception that the U.S. Constitution applies only to U.S. citizens. Some passages and phrases in our laws explicitly state only “citizens” are afforded certain rights, such as the right to vote. When the terms “resident” or “person” is used instead of citizen, the rights and privileges afforded are extended to protect citizens and non-citizens alike. Moreover, protections under the 14th Amendment ensure that no particular group is discriminated against unlawfully.

    Bill of Rights

    Nowhere in the first 10 amendments to the Constitution is the word “citizen.” Often it is written “The right of the people…” The Bill of Rights protects everyone, including undocumented immigrants, to exercise free speech, religion, assembly, and to be free from unlawful government interference.

  8. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @消极 #153805 有一些权利是任何人都拥有的,比如无罪推定。

    但有一些权利应该是公民独有的,比如言论自由、选举权。

  9. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #153808 选举权和被选举权才应该是公民独有,其他的属于人身权利而不是政治权力。

    就现在来说公民和绿卡的差别:选票,护照,没了。

    其实如果你想动这个问题,可以考虑修改移民法取消永居这条。但是已有的永久居民身份是不能因为后来移民法的修改而撤消的。法不朔及以往是罗马时代就定下来的准则。违反这个,美国就不成其为美国了。

    其实要限制人身权利,有很多方法的。比如我是F1签证,如果我在美国境内发表反美亲共言论,他暂时不能拿我怎样,但是只要我一旦出境,再次入境的时候,他就可以认为我不适合入境,把我赶回老家,所以只要我持有F1签证,我就不会胡说八道。

  10. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @消极 #153810

    言论自由是政治权利,不是人身权利。

    就目前而言,绿卡是要查言论的,如果一个人总是骂美国,是可以取消绿卡的。

  11. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #153811 哦,愿闻其详。

    据我所知言论审查主要是签证的,现在签证要登记常用social media account,所以确实是审查言论的。但是申请绿卡的话,说过骂美国的话是否可以作为拒绝绿卡申请的理由,甚至持有绿卡后可以以此为理由取消绿卡,我闻所未闻,烦请提供资料。我跟移民打过不少交道,从他们转述的二手消息来看,移民的关键是税收和出入境居留记录之类是否完好。

    从法理来说,言论自由更接近于association ,publication之类的东西。如果外国人没有言论自由,是不是在美国的外国留学生不得发表学术论文?从情理上来说,限制外国人发表反对本国政府言论是很符合情理的(你丫舔着脸要来,来了又骂咱,你不是犯贱?),但是从法理上来说,还真找不出一个合适的模式把他们套住。现在有相对简单的办法,你丫来总是要签证吧,签证这玩意不是发生在US jurisdiction, 所以就没有美国的法律保护,所以我可以大大方方把你拒签了,或者在入境的地方说你不适合入境滚回老家去。这个标准不用考虑什么言论自由人人平等,可以堂而皇之地歧视。

    西方国家不是只有美国,在德国这类国家,纳粹主义言论等,是可以大大方方地歧视的。理论上说,由于穆斯林普遍反犹,穆斯林移民可以拎成一串扔出去。

  12. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @消极 #153814

    绿卡转入籍是要查言论的,像李毅这种就不能入籍,他如果申请入籍就可能会被吊销绿卡驱逐出境。

  13. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #153818 not so fast

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1424

    美国法典第八章第1424节:

    §1424. Prohibition upon the naturalization of persons opposed to government or law, or who favor totalitarian forms of government (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 405(b) of this Act, no person shall hereafter be naturalized as a citizen of the United States-

    (1) who advocates or teaches, or who is a member of or affiliated with any organization that advocates or teaches, opposition to all organized government; or

    (2) who is a member of or affiliated with (A) the Communist Party of the United States; (B) any other totalitarian party of the United States; (C) the Communist Political Association; (D) the Communist or other totalitarian party of any State of the United States, of any foreign state, or of any political or geographical subdivision of any foreign state; (E) any section, subsidiary, branch, affiliate, or subdivision of any such association or party; or (F) the direct predecessors or successors of any such association or party, regardless of what name such group or organization may have used, may now bear, or may hereafter adopt, unless such alien establishes that he did not have knowledge or reason to believe at the time he became a member of or affiliated with such an organization (and did not thereafter and prior to the date upon which such organization was so registered or so required to be registered have such knowledge or reason to believe) that such organization was a Communist-front organization; or

    (3) who, although not within any of the other provisions of this section, advocates the economic, international, and governmental doctrines of world communism or the establishment in the United States of a totalitarian dictatorship, or who is a member of or affiliated with any organization that advocates the economic, international, and governmental doctrines of world communism or the establishment in the United States of a totalitarian dictatorship, either through its own utterances or through any written or printed publications issued or published by or with the permission or consent of or under authority of such organization or paid for by the funds of such organization; or

    (4) who advocates or teaches or who is a member of or affiliated with any organization that advocates or teaches (A) the overthrow by force or violence or other unconstitutional means of the Government of the United States or of all forms of law; or (B) the duty, necessity, or propriety of the unlawful assaulting or killing of any officer or officers (either of specific individuals or of officers generally) of the Government of the United States or of any other organized government because of his or their official character; or (C) the unlawful damage, injury, or destruction of property; or (D) sabotage; or

    (5) who writes or publishes or causes to be written or published, or who knowingly circulates, distributes, prints, or displays, or knowingly causes to be circulated, distributed, printed, published, or displayed, or who knowingly has in his possession for the purpose of circulation, publication, distribution, or display, any written or printed matter, advocating or teaching opposition to all organized government, or advocating (A) the overthrow by force, violence or other unconstitutional means of the Government of the United States or of all forms of law; or (B) the duty, necessity, or propriety of the unlawful assaulting or killing of any officer or officers (either of specific individuals or of officers generally) of the Government of the United States or of any other organized government, because of his or their official character; or (C) the unlawful damage, injury, or destruction of property; or (D) sabotage; or (E) the economic, international, and governmental doctrines of world communism or the establishment in the United States of a totalitarian dictatorship; or

    (6) who is a member of or affiliated with any organization that writes, circulates, distributes, prints, publishes, or displays, or causes to be written, circulated, distributed, printed, published, or displayed, or that has in its possession for the purpose of circulation, distribution, publication, issue, or display, any written or printed matter of the character described in subparagraph (5) of this subsection.

    (b) The provisions of this section or of any other section of this chapter shall not be construed as declaring that any of the organizations referred to in this section or in any other section of this chapter do not advocate the overthrow of the Government of the United States by force, violence, or other unconstitutional means.

    (c) The provisions of this section shall be applicable to any applicant for naturalization who at any time within a period of ten years immediately preceding the filing of the application for naturalization or after such filing and before taking the final oath of citizenship is, or has been found to be within any of the classes enumerated within this section, notwithstanding that at the time the application is filed he may not be included within such classes.

    (d) Any person who is within any of the classes described in subsection (a) solely because of past membership in, or past affiliation with, a party or organization may be naturalized without regard to the provisions of subsection (c) if such person establishes that such membership or affiliation is or was involuntary, or occurred and terminated prior to the attainment by such alien of the age of sixteen years, or that such membership or affiliation is or was by operation of law, or was for purposes of obtaining employment, food rations, or other essentials of living and where necessary for such purposes.

    (e) A person may be naturalized under this subchapter without regard to the prohibitions in subsections (a)(2) and (c) of this section if the person-

    (1) is otherwise eligible for naturalization;

    (2) is within the class described in subsection (a)(2) solely because of past membership in, or past affiliation with, a party or organization described in that subsection;

    (3) does not fall within any other of the classes described in that subsection; and

    (4) is determined by the Director of Central Intelligence, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense when Department of Defense activities are relevant to the determination, and with the concurrence of the Attorney General and the Secretary of Homeland Security, to have made a contribution to the national security or to the national intelligence mission of the United States.


    表面上看,中共党员是不能入籍的,因为中共是共产主义极权主义政党--见(a)(2),所以中共党员是不允许入籍的,但是注意(d)"or that such membership or affiliation is or was by operation of law, or was for purposes of obtaining employment, food rations, or other essentials of living and where necessary for such purposes."也就是说,习近平如果申请归化美国,他可以说,如果我不是共产党员,我就不能当总书记和国家主席,军委主席,因此加入中共对我的工作是essential的,所以我申请exemption. 虽然在中华人民共和国,不入共产党并不会饿死,但是很多工作岗位和机会是没有的。也就是说,只要有这些强制性要求(比如行政岗位要求党员,甚至只是党员优先),都可以成为豁免的理由。

    这里立法的精神是什么呢?当年有很多国际社会主义者,共产主义者,无政府主义者大量移民美国(一战后first red scare,二战后second red scare),所以这里所要抓的是“志愿加入共产党,无政府主义运动,激进社会主义运动”的人士,比如英国共产党,印度共产党,日本共产党等等的成员。如果他们认为自己是被胁迫入党,或者后来政治观念发生改变,可以宣布退党(当然这个有十年的Bar)。如果是印度毛派,哥伦比亚FARC,秘鲁光辉道路控制地区的人移民美国,可以宣称自己是被胁迫,从而也可以豁免。不能豁免的情况,得由美国安全部门认定为人权侵犯者,比如中共计生干部,新疆再教育营干部,抓法轮功的学习班和反邪教办公室干部,苏联克格勃干部,古拉格管理人员等等。或者是从事武装恐怖活动和资助武装恐怖活动,比如阿富汗塔利班,伊朗伊斯兰革命卫队,中国北方工业集团,北京航空航天大学,北京理工大学等等。而且既然是美国的国家安全部门干预,自然对于叛逃或者收编的敌对势力成员,也是网开一面,参考回形针(Operation Paperclip).

    然后是言论问题,(a)(3-6)都是所谓“非美言论”,但是要注意要点:这里列出的是主张在美国建立极权主义政体,主张非法武装暴力颠覆或者违背美国宪法的方式夺取美国的政权。因此鼓吹中共好,辱骂贬低美国制度,是不符合上述条件的。因为“非美言论”必须是非法夺取或者推翻美国政府的言论。号召人民起义,进行破坏暗杀等等。由于海外五毛基本上属于歌颂中共贬低美帝的言论,因此不满足非美言论条件。

    综上所述,五毛们的入籍归化没有有效的法律手段制约。

  14. asdfghjkl  

    世界人权宣言第十九条写到

    “人人有权享有主张和发表意见的自由;此项权利包括持有主张而不受干涉的自由,和通过任何媒介和不论国界寻求、接受和传递消息和思想的自由。”

  15. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @asdfghjkl #154029

    那如果一个美国人在中国说中国人都是猪,你觉得他还能在中国境内停留吗?

    言论自由是公民权,不是人权。

  16. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #154045 中国人也没有在中国说中国人是猪的权利吧...

    其实米国的移民和国籍法里规定不得入籍的绝大多数言论,即使是米国公民也是会被制裁的。米国公民可以做而不违法,外国人做则不能归化的,恐怕只有加入美共这一类了。

    可见本国人和外国人的言论自由权利同等是可行的,而且对于当局来说管理起来也省事多了。一刀切。

  17. 石戈同志  

    #支持楼主。

    人人平等并不意味着人人都有权进入美国。

    制定《排华草案》的时候,美国只是个偏远大陆上的农业国家,人口国力同今天的美国是无法相提并论。如果放任大量清国公民加入美国国籍,很可能某一年会选出一个大清钦差来当美国总统。那样一来,美国宪法就是清国人说了算,那些白人黑人红人可能和准格尔一样悲惨。

    美国处在相对偏远的北美,除了墨西哥之外较少受到过太多外部敌对意识形态的冲击,因此显得比较开放。如果有一个民族或宗教或政治主义群体在美国不正常发展,足以威胁到美国民主制度的生存,那就自然而然会在原民众之中引发自卫性恐慌与排斥情绪。现在的华盛顿政客为了短期的政治利益,放任敌对意识形态的人民进入美国,他们比一百年前的政客更危险。

    另外,1943年美国废除了排华草案,但同时却把几百万日裔美国人关了集中营。为了保护美国民主,就应当考虑国家安全与现实需要。

    最后,推荐小说《黄祸》,里面有中国难民在全球引发恐慌导致世界核大战的情节。

  18. asdfghjkl  

    @陈士杰 #154045 当然能啊,他最多会被大部分中国人鄙视,但是绝不会到违法法律的级别。

  19. asdfghjkl  

    @陈士杰 #154045 骂人属于是鸡毛蒜皮的小事,连犯罪都算不上;按照美国的例子,会导致遣返的罪名中,最轻的是会导致【严重】后果的酒驾,而且这个罪名有很大回旋余地。如果在某个国家,连骂人都会导致被遣返的话,那看来这个国家的人心胸极其狭隘,连这种言论都无法忍受。

  20. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @丁丁兄弟 #153313 你说的有道理,如果吊销美国华侨的绿卡,会引发他们对美国的厌恶。

    那么新排华法案可以改成只是禁止中华人民共和国公民获得美国绿卡,已经获得绿卡的中国公民就不动了。

  21. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @Truth #175771 如果人人都是你这个想法, 共产党就垮不了了,这种言论就是帮助共产党维稳的。

  22. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #176082 那这个排华法案,也是消灭中国人中的亲西方势力,促进中国人爱国的。爱国就是爱党。

  23. Truth  

    @陈士杰 #176082

    我沒那麼崇高的追求,只想自己有尊嚴的生活,能夠在自由世界實現自己的價值。大部分美國人,英國人,歐洲人也不會同意為了讓共產黨垮台,派出聯合遠征軍到中國這種直接損害自己生活的政策。

    還有一點是共產黨垮了,中國能變好多少?還是誰中國仍舊是再出現一個極權,仍舊反對英美制定的世界秩序(這一點你站很多人都已經用言語表示了支持),仍舊人均gdp一萬出頭。

    到頭來還是潤了划算。

  24. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @Truth #176114 就是逼着你这种人在中国不得不造反。

    @消极 #176089 ①美国政府可以公开的说,我们只禁止中华人民共和国公民,对其他国家的华人不限制,这就避免了种族歧视的嫌疑;②反正中国境内的亲西方势力也早就被习近平收拾的差不多没有了,也不差这一点了。

  25. Truth  

    @陈士杰 #176122

    我早就潤了啊😅

    逼着你这种人

    所以你這根不是追求自由。希望強迫他人把自己的生命置於危險,這是自由嗎?

  26. 陈士杰   打倒共产党!打倒习近平!

    @Truth #176124

    ①移民從來不是自由,中國公民沒有移民美國的自由;

    ②這是為了爭取全體中國人民的自由。

  27. 邹韬奋 外逃贪官CA
    邹韬奋   虽然韬光养晦,亦当奋起而争(拜登永不为奴:h.2047.one)

    @陈士杰 #176125 革命推出新共产党呗

    @陈士杰 #176122 一仍然是种族歧视,因为nation of origin是equal rights的一环。二中国远未完成习近平的家天下,党内还有大量山头没有被清算。

  28. 陈士杰 回复 natasha /p/197955

    阿根廷宪法第25条,明确规定联邦政府欢迎欧洲移民。 所以阿根廷要天天给亚洲人和非洲人道歉吗?

  29. linda 回复 陈士杰 /p/199330

    如果在现有世界政治格局中,阿根廷崛起为一个强国,自然会有要求阿根廷对非洲人和亚洲人道歉的国际压力。米国加拿大澳洲都做了类似的道歉。阿根廷不需要,因为他地位不高,要求他道歉的国际驱动力就少。

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